Supernatural 5x02

[certainthings]

I hases two questions about 5x02


"This isn't a hobby or an addiction. It's inside you now, this magic. You're responsible for it."

If Sam didn't need the feather and it was in him the whole time ... Why does he not have his mojo any more? I get that it took a lot out of him to kill Lilith but still, it should still be there. Shouldn't it?

* * *

Dean knows that there is a hell.
Dean knows that there are demons.
Dean knows that there are angels.
Dean knows that Lucifer is out there looking for work.

And yet he doesn't believe in God. Using small words and hand puppets please explain this to me. I do not understand how he cannot believe in God.

Comments

[crackedbuthappy.livejournal.com]

In Dream A Little Dream of Me, Sam tells Bobby that he doesn't have any powers and isn't getting visions anymore. And then BAM, Ruby shows up in S4 and he's got a corpse for a big brother and he's sucking down blood like a sugar cube placebo to "get it up" so to speak. Maybe he just blocked it out until he thought he needed it. I can't imagine that the powers are or ever were/will be completely gone. He's had them his entire life even if they didn't manifest until he was like 21/22.

It'd be foolish to think that he's just completely wiped out with killing Lilith. His blood would always be his blood, even if he was ingesting Ruby's. His blood is mixed with Azazel's from infancy. I hope they bring them back and for once let Sam use them for good. I'd love to see Dean wielding Castiel's angel killing sword and Sam using his powers and Ruby's demon killing knife against Lucifer. I think it would be epic showdown, high noon at the ok corral type stuff.

[gwendolynmstacy.livejournal.com]

This is exactly why I think it's still there. It's never actually going to go away completely. Sam is stuck with it, like it or not. And I do think he can use them without demon blood, he just doesn't quite know how. Am I making sense?

And yes, I'd like to see that too.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

He's seen all the above... he hasn't seen God yet.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I suppose that could be his logic but I still don't get it.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

If you remember in "Houses of the Holy" in season 2, Dean didn't believe in God, and he didn't believe in Angels.

Dean Winchester: So. What makes you think you saw an, uh, angel?
Sam Winchester: It just, it appeared before me and I just, this feeling washed over me, you know? Like, like peace. Like grace.
Dean Winchester: Okay, Ecstasy Boy, maybe we'll get you some glowsticks and a nice Dr. Seuss hat, huh?

and:

Dean Winchester: Okay, all right. You know what? I get it. You've got faith. That's - hey, good for you. I'm sure it makes things easier. I'll tell you who else had faith like that. Mom. She used to tell me when she tucked me in that angels were watching over us. In fact, that was the last thing she ever said to me.
Sam Winchester: You never told me that.
Dean Winchester: Well, what's to tell? She was wrong. There was nothing protecting her. There's no higher power, there's no God. I mean, there's just chaos, and violence, and random unpredictable evil that comes out of nowhere and rips you to shreds. You want me to believe in this stuff? I'm going to need to see some hard proof. You got any?


And in "Lazarus Rising":

Dean Winchester: Who are you?
Castiel: Castiel.
Dean Winchester: Yeah, I figured that much. I mean what are you?
Castiel: I'm an Angel of the Lord.
Dean Winchester: Get the hell out of here. There's no such thing.
Castiel: That is your problem, Dean, you have no faith.

Dean doesn't believe in anything until he sees proof, until he can see it with his own eyes. He hasn't seen God yet. Why would he believe in God, when he hasn't seen him?

[annapeace.livejournal.com]

I second this. Plus, even if a tiny itty bitty part of him believed God existed, Dean pretty much hates the big guy. So better to deny his existence at all.

[annella.livejournal.com]

Maybe part of Sam's power is his belief that he CAN do it? If he doesn't believe in his ability, his self-doubt makes it not work.

Also, Dean is the stubbornest bastard that ever did live. Maybe he's gotta SEE God to believe in him, the same way he didn't believe in angels until he saw them?

[crystalchain.livejournal.com]

Dean is someone who believes in things he can see. He hasn't seen God yet, so he doesn't believe in him.

[katysam.livejournal.com]

Has Sam actually tried to use his powers this season? Perhaps he does still have them but he is afraid to use them or thinks by not using them he can be 'normal'.

It seems to me that Dean needs physical evidence to believe. He's been to Hell, so he knows first hand it exists. He's fought demons, so he knows first hand they exist. He's got a trench coat wearing angel looking out for him and giving him attitude, so he knows first hand angels exist - S2 he wasn't so sure. Dean saw Lucifer rise, so he knows he's out there too. He just hasn't seen any proof of God yet. However, he must believe in the possibility of God otherwise I don't think he would have agreed to giving Castiel his amulet.

[apey1013.livejournal.com]

I agree with what's being said above with the "seeing is believing" and I'd like to add that I also think even if Dean does believe he won't particularly give a shit until she sees proof of God being involved. Right now God's not a player in this doomsday scenario so Dean doesn't really give a crap if he exists (and would probably rather not know if he does in light of everything that's happened).

[nomelon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I had trouble with Dean's logic too, but I seem to remember his difficulty understanding Sam's faith way back when. He could believe in every foul, evil, demonic thing out there, but not in angels or in god. Now he's seen angels, but he probably just has trouble with god because god is one of the good things. Pretty much goes hand in hand with the way he sees himself, no?

[bathsweaver.livejournal.com]

He could believe in every foul, evil, demonic thing out there, but not in angels or in god...he probably just has trouble with god because god is one of the good things.

And the angels he's seen have been more than willing to do some pretty foul things. They fit in with his view that the world is an unforgiving, unloving place. It's not a hard leap to go from I believe everything I see, and everything I see is foul and evil to IF I believe in something, it will turn out to be foul and evil.

At this point, refusing to believe in god may be exactly that--an act of conscious will. So long as Dean doesn't confess to believing in god, he doesn't have to face the possibility his logic suggests, that god is just as bent and crooked as all the other things that Dean can only believe in because he's seen them with his own eyes.

[rl2hb.livejournal.com]

Regarding the first question, I had always assumed that Ruby meant the choices he made were all him, not due to demon blood clouding his judgement or anything like that.

As for Dean not believing in God - knowing all of the evil in the world, I think that he'd rather believe God doesn't exist than believe that he does and doesn't care enough or is unable to prevent some of the evils he's witnessed.

[rl2hb.livejournal.com]

And I spelled judgment wrong.... Oh well. :)

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I think the demon blood thing was just a contrivance to get Sam "strong" in his abilities. I've always held the theory that Sam was born with abilities that Azazel wanted to manipulate for his own evol purposes.

Sam's always had the abilities. He just needs to believe in them. I'm thinking we'll see that (hopefully!) this season.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

This.

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Someone needs to manip Sam's face onto Neo's body when he's wearing the black trench coat. :D

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Does this mean Dean's face is manip'd on Trinity's body? XD

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

*diiiiiiiiiiies laughing*

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

I guess that makes Bobby Morpheus then, huh?

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

It makes sense. Bobby's kickass. So is Morpheus!

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

And that makes Castiuseless Cypher. The dude who was actually evil and selling them out to the computers. (OKAY, SO IT'S HOW I WANT IT TO BE.)

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

YES! SO MUCH WORD ON THIS!

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Does this make Zach Mr. Smith and the rest of the dickhead angels Agents?? (I'm having too much fun with this, if you haven't noticed. The Matrix trilogy are some of my favorite meta movies ever.)

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

Mr. Smith and the Agents are the Angels? HELL YEAH!

Movie Change ...

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

But ... did you ever see Pulp Fiction? Remember when Samuel L. Jackson's character kept reciting Ezekiel 25:17 before he shot somebody? I want Dean to say that ... just before he shoots Useless in the fucking face with an angel-killing gun.

[blacklid.livejournal.com]

LOL NO. Dean is Morpheus.

[oreius.livejournal.com]

MMMMMMMMMM

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Whoa.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

I wondered about the first part too. Shouldn't his powers just be laying dormant until he figures out how to use them without blood? Ava didn't need to be a vampire to control demons, and he's supposed to have the same gifts as the special kids, right?

And I'm with Wendy, he doesn't believe in God because he hasn't seen him/it yet. He's seen everything else.

[je-suis.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think Dean's reasoning for not believing in God isn't so much that he hasn't seen God and thus, doesn't believe. I think it's more like what he said to Cas last night: If God exists, why is there so much evil all around? I don't think Dean CAN believe, because if he does, he has no explanation for why there's so much evil and why God hasn't stepped in to help at some point. It's easier for Dean to believe God is either dead or doesn't exist at all than it is for him to accept that God is out there and just hasn't interfered or helped for whatever reason.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

. I think it's more like what he said to Cas last night: If God exists, why is there so much evil all around?

Which goes back to his having no formal instruction on God and why the world is the way it is. It's not because God doesn't care or Satan's on the prowl for souls, it's because humanity exercises free will. On the front of what's going on with the Apocalypse, unless he's incapacitated (ala Dogma), God's well aware of what's going on, but needs the events to play out in order for it to end the way it must (ala The Fall of Man, i.e. Paradise Lost).

[oreius.livejournal.com]

I think Sam's lying about his mojo being gone. He knows it's bad and he knows that Dean and Bobby don't like that about him, so he's decided to just pretend it's gone. Kind of like how alcoholics and druggies lie just because they know family/friends look down on them for it. Hopes this is it. :[

[lavendergaia]

I think it's more of a mental block than anything else. Also, Ruby's a lying bitch, so... He probably still has his mojo and if he was dying or someone like Lilith was trying to kill him, it would protect him, but he's in no mind to actually use them.

And Dean is like one of those people that wouldn't believe in something if it was standing right in front of him. I think God will have to bitchslap him to get him to truly believe. It's just...I'm sure he's prayed without thinking about it and his life always goes to hell in a handbasket (sometimes literally), so he probably doesn't want to believe and then get let down like Sam was. It's easier to think there's no God or that God left than wonder why God is there and why he allows horrible things to happen.

[bubl.livejournal.com]

I hope they're not gone. I'm thinking either he hasn't tried because he's worried he might still have them, or he doesn't have confidence in himself. Before, he thought the demon blood was helping him, maybe he doesn't think it'll work anymore without it even though Ruby told her it would.

He hasn't seen God, he needs to see him(/her/it) to believe.

[evilshelly.livejournal.com]

because if there was a God, Dean wouldn't turn his back on his brother!

eh...i got nothing. :P
well, aside from the fact that Dean probably thinks there *was* a God and is no more and evil won out.

'cause, really, otherwise? God's a Dick. (like Dean--who totally turned his back on his brother, when his brother was clearly reaching out to him!)

[halfshellvenus.livejournal.com]

And yet he doesn't believe in God. Using small words and hand puppets please explain this to me. I do not understand how he cannot believe in God.
I can't believe that a God exists in the Supernatural universe. I was pretty pissed off when it turned out that there were angels.

Look at what his family has lost their lives to, over the years-- all to save people from evil supernatural beings that God just lets attack the innocent? And lets Hunters lose their sanity, even their lives, trying to correct?

God let the YED get Sam killed in that showdown, which is how Dean wound up selling his soul and going to Hell, and then getting yanked out AFTER suffering through utter personal destruction.

Really, when you look at it from Dean's POV... if there IS a God, he's not God.

He's an asshole with ultimate power who isn't taking care of his responsibilities.

I don't think Dean wants to go there, mentally. There's no reward in that kind of thinking at all. :(

[deadflowerss.livejournal.com]

I think Dean doesn't believe in God,because he believes that he has been dealt a poor hand in life.
That his and Sam's existence to date,has been so tragic,that what God could he believe in that would allow it.

I think he connects God to fairness,forgiveness and justice.I don't think Dean can see any of those things in his life,his work or in the world.Dean needs to see to believe.

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

What I don't get is...can't Castiel or some other angel give Sam THEIR blood and do a magical cancellation or something?? Bugs the shit outta me. And if Sam and Dean are brothers, then they share quite a bit of blood, yes? So why can't Sam take a little Dean-blood and...something. I don't know. I haven't gotten past the "Sam drinks Dean's blood" bit.

I think Dean has always believed in God. I think he just doesn't have it in him to be ultimately betrayed like that. I think he feels as though everyone he's ever put faith in has betrayed him (Mary by dying for Sam, John by dying for him, Sam by seeking revenge for him, [Jesus/God by dying for humankind]) and I believe there's the tiniest little granule of hope inside Dean that he fervently does NOT want destroyed. Hence, the complete denial of God, or rather, his own beliefs. "Don't believe in it, it can't hurt me," which is rather ridiculous given his vocation, but that's my two cents.

[giantlovetingle.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of the line from Constantine. "You don't believe that God exists, you know God exists" (or something like that).

So perhaps because he knows all those other things exist he has to see/have proof of the existence of God?