Supernatural : 6x06 : You Can't Handle The Truth

[certainthings]

So, some spoilers for this ep but mostly I think I want to talk about the promo for next week's ep.


I liked it.

I did not like Bobby saying that Dean was his favourite. I want him to like them both equally.

I like that Lisa is done with Dean. I hope her and Ben stay gone. They don't really have a place on the show.

I do not understand why Jared's acting is so not ... well, good. I mean, he looks like he's lying, he looks insincere. Which, I get that he WAS and IS. Only, he's supposed to look, sound ... seem like Sam. And he just wasn't at all. And why didn't anyone (on the show, obviously) pick up on this shit? Why did Jared choose to go that route and not just do his normal Sam act and maybe change something *slightly*.

Ugh.

If Dean had punched Sam once, perhaps twice, I might have understood that. But punching the shit outta him? I didn't like it. Made my insides all ouchy.

* * *

And now. Spoilers based on the promo.

So, Sam doesn't have his soul. I don't think that explains why Sam has no emotions or feelings. Bobby didn't have his soul for awhile and he was still Bobby. Why is Sam different? Is he more prone to evil because of who he is or is his soul trapped in hell and being influenced down there? Does a soul really make that much of a difference on what your character is like? Or is having no soul just a real good excuse to be a right bastard?

Comments

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

To be fair, Sam punched the shit out of Dean two seasons ago. It's only payback?

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Perhaps

[beckytheelf.livejournal.com]

Sam needed a beat down but not the total shit kicked out of him. I would have been down with it if it were an actual FIGHT because that's how Sam and Dean really work out their differences. I just don't like watching the two of them now and it's making me sad.
Also, if the preview angle is what the show is going to go with...I'm still all WTF. Because it's such a copout. And everyone called it five episodes ago. Ah, show.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yes. An actual fight would've been a lot better.

[cherrymmm.livejournal.com]

I don't think Bobby was without his soul. I think he just owed it to Crowley in 10 years.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yeah? I thought Crowley had his soul.

[cherrymmm.livejournal.com]

Nope. It was a deal and Crowley said 10 years. The only trouble I have with the whole thing is that for all the people who have sold their souls to the Crossroads demons or whatever, they always die when it's time to pay up. So if everyone (including Dean) died and went to hell when their soul was collected, how could Sam survive without his?

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was just one of those crossroads deals. Bobby sold his soul for ... whatever the hell it was he got. I've blocked out last season so good, I can't even remember.

[spinfrog.livejournal.com]

I thought that while at the end on the 10 yr period Bobby's soul belonged to what's his face, he still had it in the meantime? I haven't watched 6 yet, but having a body with no soul doesn't make sense? /o\

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what others have said. I was wrong, I thought he had his soul.

[goonies-nsd.livejournal.com]

I think with the absence of his soul, he has to act like he gives a shit, so maybe Sam sucks at that?

I sorta wanted Dean to stop, but then I remembered the end of s5. The only difference is THAT WAS LUCIFER and Dean is beating the shit out of him as Dean. WTF is that?! At least soulless Sam is still trying to do the right thing.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Maybe. I dunno.

I would understand one or two punches but just going at him like that? I didn't like it at all.

[goonies-nsd.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to figure it out too. Maybe I'm in denial that Jared isn't as good an actor as I want him to be. People were perceiving his performance thus far as just Jared being tired of the show and phoning it in as opposed to ~something's off but I can't put my finger on it~ I guess it's a fine line to walk.

I didn't like it either. Nearly drove me to drink (erm. Not really, but it's fun to say OMG I NEED A DRINK!). It bothers me that Dean is, pardon the term, abusive. I mean, when he's really fired up, he just PUNCHES him! Ugh. I don't like that it (the episode) ended there.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

It is hard to find a place to put one's finger because I honestly don't believe that Jared's a BAD actor, I mean I don't think him (or Jensen) are GOOD but yeah. But this ... 'acting' that he's doing now is, obvious acting.

[apey1013.livejournal.com]

I see the excessive punching as Dean getting out his frustrations in life/getting back at Sam for Lucifer!Sam beating the shit out of him last season. They're just...punchy, I suppose.

Bobby had his soul. He just didn't have ownership of his soul. So when he eventually died, Crowley would have control over it. But he still had it.

They're basically going with the "no sould = no empathy" or...I dunno, something. Whatever it is, they're not really doing a great job with it since Sam's little speech there and his actions kinda prove that he does feel things. *le sigh*

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

I think it was just a little too punchy.

Yeah, I realize that now. I should edit my post but I don't feel like it. :)

[agt-league.livejournal.com]

I did not like Bobby saying that Dean was his favourite. I want him to like them both equally.

Yes, this!

I hope Lisa/Ben stay gone also.

If Dean had punched Sam once, perhaps twice, I might have understood that. But punching the shit outta him? I didn't like it. Made my insides all ouchy.

Word. Reminded me of S5 finale. Argh. D:

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

If there's any kind of tearful heartfelt reunion with Lisa and Ben in the future I might throw up and throw things.

[agt-league.livejournal.com]

I'll be right there with you.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

ps. watch more Lost Girl. :nods:

[agt-league.livejournal.com]

I'm up to 1x06. :D Downloading now.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

o/

I like this. I like that you like. Mmhmm.

[agt-league.livejournal.com]

It's a very good show - you rock for pimping it. :D

[trillian276709.livejournal.com]

If Dean had punched Sam once, perhaps twice, I might have understood that. But punching the shit outta him? I didn't like it. Made my insides all ouchy.

Indeed. I found it unnecessary.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Really very unnecessary. Ugh.

[evilshelly.livejournal.com]

i didn't like it. not at all.
i don't like Show unless San and Dean are totally in love.
Will die for each other.
That was the Show I was introduced to. The Show I came to love.
this shit? No. Just, no.

Ugh. No.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

I miss that show a lot.

[likewinning.livejournal.com]

I don't know, man, Sam stood there and let his brother turn into a vampire. I think maybe him getting knocked around isn't so bad, in comparison.

I mean, I did expect them to fight it out rather than, you know, THAT, but at the same time I feel like the no-soul thing is a bs excuse. IF VAMPIRES ON BUFFY COULD HELP SAVE THE WORLD WHILE SOULLESS, WHAT IS SAM'S PROBLEM? :x

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I guess there is that ... I dunno. I think it was just a bit too much though.

I was thinking of that as well, that over in the Whedonverse when Angel didn't have his soul he was the baddest motherfucker in all the land but Spike and Harmony while bastards and idiots ... they weren't as evil.

[weesta.livejournal.com]

I don't think Bobby didn't have a soul...he had a contract that said Crowley would have his soul at the end of the contract. Bobby's soul was in jeopardy, but it was still in his body.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I get that now, I'm just too lazy to change my post.

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

Everyone saying Sam deserved it pisses me the fuck off. When Dean came out of Hell, did he deserve a beat down for lying to Sam for months? No. Sam being without a soul means that he really didn't even recognize that what he was doing wasn't right. It's almost as though he's now handicapped, mentally incapable of making decisions - like a child. That's not his fault, and he shouldn't have been beaten UNCONSCIOUS for that. Should Dean now be beaten unconscious because whatever happened to him in Hell turned him into the kind of person who would beat his brother to a pulp? No. They both need help, not beatings.

This fandom is ridiculous with its preference for Dean and ability to forgive Dean everything but its complete intolerance for Sam doing the same shit - EXCEPT! SAM DOESN'T HAVE A SOUL! Therefore, it's a totally different situation. Dude. He CONTROLLED LUCIFER and DUMPED HIS ASS IN A CAGE IN HELL. I think he deserves a little leeway. (Speaking of that...where the hell is Adam? Or Michael? Are they EVER gonna give us closure on that?)

No soul = no compassion. If he knew, logically, that he could save Dean with the cure, along with trusting that Dean was such a good hunter, himself, that he wouldn't drink anyone's blood until they cured him, then in his soullessness, he wouldn't have realized he was wrong until Dean TOLD him he was wrong. His face when Dean admitted that until yesterday, he wanted him dead? That was proof, in my opinion, that he really did not GET that it wasn't right to just be a hunter and do what he was supposed to do in order to get the job done.

This is why I avoid 99% of fandom and only come see posts that have some intelligence to them, lol. Everyone else pisses me off.

Re: Bobby. Still has a soul, just owes it to Crowley. And I kinda figured he always liked Dean more. Two peas in a pod, town drunks, they go together like Jack and Coke.

I do not know what to say about Jared's acting. I think it's partly that he's trying to show that Sam thinks everything is hunky-dory, and partly Jared's acting...which tends to err on the side of suck.

I did a little "DUMB BITCH FINALLY STEPPED UP TO PROTECT HER SON! YAY!" dance. And then I thought, "Well, I'd LIKE her around, now that she's shown she actually CAN put her son before some hot guy." Either way, I'm glad she's gone, but I do feel bad for Dean. I was kinda surprised when the truth came out to be that he really DID want all that apple-pie shit, so now I feel all kinds of sad that he simply will never get it.

And the "Dean is an alcoholic and we're actually going to acknowledge it for a change" thing was fabulous. However, fandom will just say "Awww, he SHOULD be one, his life is AWFULE!" and it'll piss me off more, LMAO. Let Sam pick up a drink now and then and it's, "OMG CAN'T HE HANDLE ANYTHING WITHOUT GETTING DRUNK? LOSER." SMH



I have a nasty trojan virus and some untouchable malware, and I have to reboot my computer. DNW. That's why I haven't been posting (been fighting off nasty shit), and why I'm about to go AWOL. -.- Sigh.

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna add one thing, a point for Dean. The only reason I could possibly begin to understand for him beating Sam like that was because he lost Lisa and Ben as a result of being turned. If THAT turns out to be why, if he says, "Look, maybe I was a little rough with you, but I lost my ~family over this mess," then I can sympathize. But he should have broken ties immediately after the shapeshifter situation, so I don't think I'll have THAT much sympathy. He knew what could happen, and he should have let them go. It's not like he was with them for very long, anyway. I've had fits of mania that lasted longer than their relationship, lmao.

Anyway, just trying to be a little LESS anti-Dean, trying to see both sides of the fictional situation. >.>

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

I was going to link you to donna_c_punk's review on the ep because she says things so very well and much better than I ever could but she's all flocked so I'm just going to copy/paste.

"I will say Lisa finally got off the stupid pills. I was shocked as fuck she didn't go, "Oh, it's okay, Dean. I understand, you're my big strong hero. Ben's a little bastard anyway and probably deserved it." If there was one person who needed to stop lying to herself, it was her. However, big surprise, Sam's the one Dean blamed for it. I mean, I guess that's why he beat the shit out of him at the very end. I can't think of any other possible explanation, since, for her, the shoving Ben deal was the last straw. But, really, she flatout-ass told him that she knew it was over as soon as Sam walked in her front door. HOW IS THAT SAM'S FUCKING FAULT? He doesn't control Dean's fucked up codependence issues."

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

Oh, I LIKE all those words together like that, making sense and shit.

He doesn't control Dean's fucked up codependence issues

A-FUCKING-MEN. Everyone (people who watch the show, people who write the show, characters ON the show) continually attempt to shove down our throats how completely codependent the boys are on each other, but that's bullshit. Sam left. And stayed gone. Several times. The only one with dependency issues is Dean. Sam does just fine on his own.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

...attempt to shove down our throats how completely codependent the boys are on each other

This show is getting big on retconning and revisionist history. Esp. this season, which I suspect may be Gamble trying to put her own personal stamp on the canon. What there is of it anymore. Things that were not present quite obviously in the earlier seasons, such as the codependency, we're suddenly told is fact, was fact and always will BE fact. I didn't see them presented as codependent people in the first three seasons. Like someone said above, they shared a strong family bond, dysfunctional as it was, but unique in how it was formed. If these things had never happened to them, they wouldn't have had the dynamic they did then. Out of left field, we're continually told they're codependant. I'm like, "I don't think that word means what you think it does, guys." But the writers don't listen to me. If they did, Castiuseless would've been outed as a demon posing as an angel by the middle of season four and stabbed in the fucking face with the knife by Sam.

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

The shallow woman inside me tolerates Sera for her ability to make me forget I actually AM in it for the plot, but mostly I wonder if she took on more than she can handle.

"Castiuseless" is the best thing I've heard all week, thank you. I love Misha, but when they finally kill off Castiel, I don't think I'm going to be doing much in the way of mourning his loss.

As for Sam and Dean's dependency upon one another, I think the writers are taking the moments where one brother was worried about the other brother's impending death/pain/distress, etc, and labeling that as codependency. You're probably right, in that they don't completely understand the meaning behind the word. Hell, I'm getting tired of looking at it, myself, and ready to change its meaning.

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

I'd really like to know how people would react if it was the other way around, if it was Dean being all souless and douchey and letting Sam get vamped and such. Would there be a great difference in reactions or would it be how it is now?

I'm not surprised that Dean is Bobby's favourite but I don't like it.

This damn show.

I'm sure I have things to say, I just don't know how to word them

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

I'd really like to know how people would react if it was the other way around, if it was Dean being all souless and douchey and letting Sam get vamped and such. Would there be a great difference in reactions or would it be how it is now?

I lol'd. You know very well what would happen. There'd be a chorus of "Awwwwww, poor BABY" from around the world, and some extra "This is all SAM'S FAULT" to follow.

I'm pretty sure that whatever you're thinking, I'm right there, creepily agreeing. :D

[certainthings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, probably I just like to think/pretend that we'd all be fair in our judgement.

[uglyduckling-me.livejournal.com]

I enjoy your comments and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
(which is really just me saying "IAWTC" lol)

[fromyourashes.livejournal.com]

:D